In This Episode

All February we’re focusing on building and maintaining authentic relationships. This week, Jenny and Justin talk with executive matchmaker and dating coach Sophy Singer because she helps people find those authentic connections that lead to lifelong relationships. Sophy knows a thing or two about how to start an authentic relationship, and we wanted to hear it all. Like, how do people start relationships authentically? Don't we all want to put our very best foot forward, hide all the uncomfortable stuff, and hope to reel a person in before getting authentic? And what does it mean be authentic in the dating world?

In this episode, Sophy tells us about how she built her decade-long career as an executive matchmaker, how she coaches clients as they navigate the dating world, why dating is so damn hard these days, why the practices of authentic relating are the key to finding the right person, and how she's disrupting the dating and matchmaking world today. Even if your like us and your dating days are far in the past, you're gonna love hearing Sophy's wisdom, her stories, and her passion for helping people connect deeply and authentically.

Yes Collective is co-hosted by Justin Wilford, PhD and Jenny Walters, LMFT.

Justin Wilford, PhD, is a co-founder of Yes Collective, an educator, a writer, and an emotional health coach. He earned doctorates from UCLA (cultural geography) and UC Irvine (public health), and specializes in translating complex, scientific ideas into actionable programs for mental and emotional health.

Jenny Walters, LMFT, is a licensed marriage family therapist and senior expert contributor to the Yes Collective. She is a graduate of the Pacifica Graduate Institute and is the founder and director of Highland Park Holistic Psychotherapy in Los Angeles, California.

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About our guest

Sophy Singer is an executive matchmaker and founder of Sophy Love, a boutique concierge matchmaking agency. She started her career in matchmaking in 2010 as a dating coach, and found she had both a passion and knack for mentoring people to become their best selves as they played the dating field.

In 2016, she took a leap of faith, quit her job and joined the largest matchmaking firm in the nation. After countless engagements, marriages and babies born as a result of her matches, however, she wanted to get more personal, so in 2018, Sophy branched out and launched her own agency. At Sophy Love, she is able to bring her bubbly, intuitive and unparalleled charm and optimism to every single client. Her service is personal and personalized, and her results speak for themselves.

Show Notes

You can find out more about Sophy's matchmaking agency at Sophy.Love

Get on Sophy Love's Dating Directory

Find out about Closer, Sophy's revolutionary Authentic Relating dating events

Transcript Highlights

Justin

First of all, we are we are fellow childhood cancer parents and it's totally true. All the cancer hits but brain tumor parents. So like we, we share a very similar journey here. So we've known each other for a few years, but we have become really close over the last year because I have I've essentially become like your AFC coach, your internal affairs coach, and it's been an incredible, fun, enlivening, you know, life affirming journey for me.

And so we bring that background into it. Jenny, I just want you to know that as well, because, you know, Sophie and I we're buds.

So, but I do want to be clear. That's not why you're here. So you are here because you are an executive matchmaker, right? So, yeah, all February, we are talking about building authentic relationships and like, you help people find, like, these wonderful, authentic relationships, romantic partnerships that change their entire lives. And so we wanted you on because you know a thing or two about what it takes to start an authentic relationship.

So I guess we want to start off with this question How do people start authentic relationships? Because it seems like to me and I have not gone on out on a date in I don't know, since I was 20 years old or something. But it seems to me that if I'm going to go out on a date or if I'm going to start like meet looking for a romantic partnership, the last thing I want to do is be authentic.

Like I have a part in me that's like, Oh, I need to build a facade. I need to say the right thing and, you know, hide, hide all the junk. So how how do people even build authentic relationships these days?

Sophy

Well, it's pretty it's pretty tough these days, to be honest, given the current landscape of modern dating with dating apps. But I guess the easy answer is to just show up as who you are from the get go, Right. And versus who you think you need to be in order to be appealing or interesting or attractive to the person you're sitting across from.

Right. And that's a lot easier said than done. Like you said, you're going on a date. You want to have these facades up and, you know, women are always like, I'm cool, chill. I'm not needy. Like don't want to show too much emotion, you know, don't want to scare him away. But honestly, it's it's just who you are from the start is how you're going to show up going forward or you're going to have to keep showing up that way until you can't anymore.

And then and then eventually who you actually are and what you need and what you're like is going to come through. And that person is either going to like it or they're not. So if you could just at least go into it knowing like I might as well bring what's here now rather than waste a bunch of time pretending I'm a certain way to like real them in and then and then let down the facade.

Right? So that would be like the easy way to explain that even though it's it's not that easily done.

Justin

Yeah. Jenny I'm imagining you have clients who are looking for the right relationship and have this issue of like showing up around meeting people and how much do I reveal that, Well, what do I do with this facade? How authentic should I actually be?

Jenny

Absolutely. Well, I mean, oh, God, the cool girl thing that you just described comes up a lot of something around it not being okay to have an emotional internal world that has needs and vulnerabilities and and to also not be able to really name explicitly what you want, which might be a monogamous long term commitment. And that feeling like that's something that's not okay but I'm I'm noticing it evolve you know so much around around that the different choices around monogamy versus non-monogamy and all those kinds of things.

Jenny

So it's it's really running the gamut in terms of what comes into the to the office. But what I'm wondering and I want to ask Sophie about is what do you do when you've got a client who comes in and wants to be match made? But but is it really in relationship with themselves quite yet to even know what is the side and what is not?

Do you do you experience that with folks.

Sophy

All the time? Pretty often, I'll be honest, I think most people, and unless they've really done some inner work, some self-discovery, some growth in that sense, they come to me thinking, okay, the only thing that's missing is my person. Like everything is going to like, I'm going to like I've got my job. And this happens often with women.

They, they you know, they're like, have my jobs that I spent all this time on my career. I have everything set. I froze my eggs. Everything's ready now. I just need this partner, this and this is what he looks like. Or she looks like this is what they're like. This is what type of career they have. They they have, like, a big checklist.

And that's what it's going to be. Right. And then in reality, they haven't really looked into themselves. They don't understand why they want these things at all. Like what are their actual values around relationships and dating. They've just kind of based it on this story that they've built themselves like a narrative, a little plot, right? So when they come to me and I can tell that there's just like absolutely no idea going on there, I mean, all honestly, not just them.

Everyone does coaching. So that's if they don't if they don't want to be coached, if they just want introductions thrown at them, that's not what I do. I that's not a service alone that I provide. They have to be open to the coaching part of the process. And that means working with with me. I have another matchmaker on my staff who's an empowerment coach, and then I also bring in, you know, I have first of all, I have Justin, who does work with some of my clients when I feel like something like IFRS Emotional Health coaching would help guide them on this journey.

And then of course your wonderful last podcast guest Ryle Kestano. He's also one of the coaches on my team and he is amazing in the realm of dating because with authentic relating people, you know, I sort of, I honestly I'm like, look, this you're going to learn a relational practice, but really it's like the work in disguise. They really get to drop in and understand like what's going on with them and, and then better understand why they have this checklist and what are they looking for, etc..

So that's what I do. I mean that's the approach basically.

Jenny

I love that. That yeah, I have. Justin It's been how many years since you've dated? You said since you were 20.

Justin

Oh, I mean, yeah, I think Audra and I became romantically because we, we were friends before that. But then I think romantically involved last date was probably 2001. Wow. Okay.

Sophy

I heard you guys didn't even go on a first date. Then it was like, No, you're friends.

Justin

No, it was 2000. Yeah. Because I think we became romantically involved, like later in the year 2000. Yeah.

Jenny

Well, it's been I guess it's been over 12 years since I was on a date and I didn't have a matchmaker, but I actually in a, in a and in the chaos of my life, I was just dating emotionally unavailable person after person. And I was so attached to the story that you're describing, I had an idea of what it needed to look like, what they looked like.

And excuse me, it wasn't. I had a psychic actually tell me that I was headed for years of confusion and and disappointment.

Exact quote because that's the that's what you want to hear from the psychic we got on the phone, and the first thing she said was.

You're looking at years of disappointment and confusion. If you don't get clear why, why you're chasing. And she was like, You're looking for purpose in someone else and no one else could give that to you. But I'll tell you, it shook me awake and I did a lot of work. And about a month later I met my now wife, so.

And I was ready in a marriage.

Jenny

Yeah, but I was ready in a way I had never been before. Yeah, it was a real cosmic, you know, slap across the face. I mean, it really shook me and woke me up to have somebody just say, Girl, this is not going to go well.

Justin

Oh, my gosh, Sophie, I think you need a psychic on your team.

Sophy

I know. I was just going to say, can you get me her information? Because that sounds a lot quicker and simpler than what I'm doing. I know how many sessions did it take, but.

Jenny

It was one. It was one really intense. She did not sugarcoat it, but then I ended up doing emotional freedom technique, the tapping. Do you know that? Do you know about that? That where you tap on the meridians and you move it through its. And so I ended up working with a healer because that's all I could afford.

I was so broke and it actually really helped move these core beliefs through of you know, I will I will always like no one will ever pick me. I will never be loved. These things that I had unearthed inside of me, these core beliefs. And then I got to this place where I realized, you know, I will always know love.

It may not be romantic, but I will always know love in my life. And I felt this piece washed over me. And then three weeks later, I met Tina. So anyway, yeah.

Justin

I didn't know the whole story.

Sophy

Yeah. Oh, wonderful.

Jenny

Yeah. It was a journey as we like to say.

Justin

Yeah, So I'm curious about this inner work. I mean, what, what surprised me. Getting to know your matchmaking world and what you do was how much, how much work is involved. Like, it's not just like, hey, okay, you, you want a list of people to go out on dates with? And here it is.

Which is, well, assumes the matchmaking where it's like a list. Well, yeah, it's like okay. Person A you go out with person B is done, you know. So yeah, so, so there's this whole other I mean, there's like deep, very extensive process and part of it is the coaching. So I wondered if you can take us like step by step through the coaching process, like how you coach someone to go out on the big date.

Sophy

Okay, so the big date, I was looking at this question that, you know, you sent me the topics for today and immediately like I had like a triggered response to like the big date. I hate that question, which immediately made me love the question. I slowed down because there therein lies basically the biggest challenge in dating today.

I think the stakes are so high when you're going on the big date when we think God, I'm going on a date. I have to figure out. We're going to evaluate. I'm going to evaluate, I'm going to be evaluated. This is the lens that everybody is going out.

It's just a complete interview. It's sudden. And you go ahead. Go ahead, chat.

Jenny

What apps have done. They've sort of. Yes, said this up and it's like it has to be this instant thing. And if it's not, then it's like a swipe. You know, It just seems so not authentic.

Sophy

So don't get me started. I have so many things to say about that. But yes. So we will we'll talk about that in a minute. As far as why it's like that now. But yes, in today's dating, just the way modern dating is now, everybody is on a date, so the label is there. You're there to figure out if you're going to date.

You're there to figure out if you're going to potentially live together someday. Are you going to get married as opposed to so so this there's this huge focus on the outcome, which brings in the checklist, which brings everybody into their heads. So everybody's in their heads. They're looking at a person across from them and evaluating them, and they know they're also being evaluated and suddenly there's no focus on the experience of the connection itself.

It's just what the outcome is. And it just it makes it makes the entire day feel. So it's it's it's draining. You have to be so on the whole time. Right. And what so what I do in terms of just the initial like coaching people to go on dates, I try and get them out as much as possible off the bat just to go on the dates and just practice going in with the thought of, I'm going to get something out of this regardless if I ever see this person again, Like let me just go out and share space with another human being.

Sophy already took care of my checklist. Like, I don't have to worry that this is like completely off the rails. This person, they already fit into the per the gender all parameters that this client is looking for. So just let go of that and focus on the actual experience that you're having when you're talking to them. Right?

Justin

So and so then the first part is, is just getting rid of this idea of the big day, like, I guess not like the one job interview for your perfect job. It's like, no, no.

Jenny

So it's just saying expectations. Yeah.

Sophy

Yeah. And just really like going there. Let go of the outcome, sit down and listen to the other person without wondering what you're going to say next. I mean, it's hard. These are all things that take practice active listening, you know, that doesn't come easily.

Justin

Curiosity.

Sophy

Curiosity. I see all the things right? But. But the more you practice them, that's why I'm like, Let's just go on a bunch of dates. My clients have unlimited introductions, so that there's never the feeling like, Oh my God, I'm going to use up one of my matches on this. So I have to be really particular about whether I say yes or no to Sofi.

No, just keep saying yes and keep going out because this is practice, right? It's practice feeling, paying attention to like what you feel like in your body when you're across from this person. Actually, Logan Ury, the author of How to Not Die Alone The Surprise in Science That Will Help You Find Love. She's amazing. And in her book, she has this list, the post date.

Sophy

And it's just a bunch of questions you want to ask yourself after the date, but you read them before you go on the date. And they really, I think, help get you out of an evaluative mindset and just more into an experiential place. Like how did my body feel when I was on the date? Did it feel stiff?

Did it feel relaxed? Was it something in between? How do I feel energetically on and after the date? Was I exhausted? Was I energized? Is there anything I'm curious to know more about this person? So really just going into the experience as opposed to the interview, I mean, I think that's the biggest issue, is that everybody feels like they're being interviewed and they're interviewing someone else.

And let's just let go of that, right? Like, let's just have this experience.

Jenny

And, you know, as you're talking, I'm realizing the closest thing I do to dating now is interview people for employment. And even that we do five interviews, like we go on five dates, you know, because it's like we have the first one, which I call the Vibe check, which I have, you know, my practice manager do because I trust her instincts and I want to get another set of eyes on it.

But it's so much of what you're saying about just checking it energetically. And I always am like, well, if it's a yeah, if it's a yes, but I'm not sure I need more information. Let's meet again. Let's have another conversation. But then really trust in that feeling of when it becomes a resounding no in my body or when it's like a a yes.

Jenny

And there are the things about them as a human that I'm going to need to work with because there is no no one is perfect. Right? So anyway, I was struck by. Yeah, you know why if we're if I'm doing that with an employee, what I expect anything less in choosing a life partner. I mean that you're going to really be spending time with.

Sophy

Yeah. Yeah. I think again, if people could just do that more of a vibe check as opposed to a check list track, I think that's just like a first. Yep. Right.

Justin

In the coaching process it's first. Let's just get rid of the big day. Let's get rid of the checklist mentality. All right. So I've done that and then I'm saying, All right, But Sophie, I'm really nervous about this day. Like, tell me how to show up. Tell me what to do. Like, how can I put my best foot forward?

What what are you going to say?

Sophy

Why do I do have my clients if they're really nervous before dates, like if they really are? Well, look, these days I would say pick the one. The one thing that I will give, I'll give a positive to online dating. People are just going on a lot more dates, Right? So typically, I would say I see less of that.

Oh my God, I'm so like, I'm really, really nervous. Everyone's got nerves before their first dates. I mean, I don't know. I get nervous before I meet any new person. I don't know. It's just like I've never met them before. But I think I. I mean, I actually have them eye to eye. I advise them to do whatever it is that they would do to relax themselves before, like, definitely, first of all, don't come to it.

Try not to go on a date like straight from work. It's just bad, bad idea. It's just you're just running right in your head and usually there's like very little downtime in between, you know, people who are extremely nervous. I'm like, listen, you should probably just set aside an hour, hour and a half before take a bath, maybe do some stretching again.

Everything getting into their bodies is I mean, some some breathing, some for seven, eight breaths. I try not to say have a glass of wine, but if wine is there, if they you know, if it's their thing, maybe get there a half an hour early. Find your you know, situate yourself so you're not like running late and frantic when you get there.

Yeah. It's okay to have a half a glass of wine or, you know, have a few sips of a drink to relax. But yeah, I mean, honestly, though, it is about, I think, just slowing down and reminding yourself that this is not an interview, that this is just meeting a new human being, making a new connection, and who knows what the outcome.

Maybe this is going to be your friend who's going to introduce you to their friend. That's going to be your life partner. I mean, how do you know? Right? Just just go in and meet a new person.

Jenny

So in a way, are you saying it sounds like it's sort of an overall male attitude change of not focusing on outcome, getting clear about being in the moment and experiencing? And then it also kind of sounds like a numbers game, like just get out there. No, meet as many people as you can.

Sophy

Well, gosh, I hate the numbers. I have to honestly, it's it's not a numbers game. Okay.

Jenny

So that will come as a great relief to many people to hear that.

Sophy

So it's not a numbers game, actually, that what I say when I say go out on some dates as a matchmaker, I want that. I mean, they come to me, they're paying me to like push them through this process. And so because I'm actively working with them and they're coaching with me, excuse me, they're coaching with Rachel, for example, like we'll work on all these authentic relating skills.

And then I'm like, Let's go on the dates so that you can practice them, right? But as you're practicing them, it becomes so much less of a numbers game because every single interaction is actually so much more emotionally intimate. It's deeper, it's more connecting. And so really it becomes much less of a numbers game, right? It becomes suddenly you're curious to find something about like you immediately look for maybe something that you are drawn to in the person as opposed to a reason to say no.

Right? Because when you're in a checklist mentality and you're in your head evaluating, you're just looking for the box and not you can't check. Right. Like this, This note, okay, he didn't do that. Or he said that. And that means as opposed to being in your body, connecting from your heart, curious, open. Then suddenly you're starting to notice things that you want to connect on.

Sophy

And so it becomes much less of a numbers game.

Jenny

Wow. I have all these questions. I don't know if they're actually helpful. Justin. I'm just so curious for it.

Justin

No, no, no. Well, Jenny, you are going to demonstrate right now the authentic relating practice of curiosity.

Let's lean into your curiosity.

Jenny

I'm noticing that . . . I'm just wondering, like, do you ever get clients where they. I don't know, like, they're unwilling to do this work around the authenticity or that You're just like, I can't help you. Like, I can't match you.

Sophy

I mean, I'll be honest. My work has changed, and I've changed because I've changed so much over the last year that I So when I decide when someone decides whether they want to hire me, I'm also deciding whether I can help them in in, like, the best way possible. Like, how can I when I because these people are paying me a lot of money too.

So this is like an investment. They're tens of thousands of dollars. Right. And so it's it's it's really like I've really stepped into a place where now I really understand how what, what needs to happen for me to be so so I can be successful for a client, right? Like, how can I do that? And sometimes, of course, as a matchmaker, you're like, I want to change the trajectory of their life by introducing them to their person.

Because, yes, that's like the here it is. Here's the engagement ring fingers and all of that is really amazing. But in reality, what I found over the years and now even more so, is that to me it's the same level of excitement and success, or even more so when someone comes to me after we've worked together and I didn't introduce them to their partner, but they met their partner, you know, within that year and they come back and they're like, Sophie, it was it was this.

It was it was this work. It was this process that got me to a place where I had space within myself to actually connect with another person the right way and the right type of person. And I became more open. Right. And so now when it comes to these, like, look what you said, just fancier, go back to your question of like, what do you do when someone comes in?

They're just closed. Like, I just had a call this a discovery call with somebody this last week. And I discussed with her my process and my coaching and how I introduce people and that I'm running like live events that are private, curated, authentic, relating matchmaking events. And she said, Well, what is that? And I explained exactly what happens during an event where they're like these really deep icebreakers.

And she was like, So you think I'm going to you expect me to talk about my, like, deep feelings and emotions as with a complete stranger? And I said, Well, everyone I introduce you to is a complete stranger, other than the fact that I've met them. So any person you ever meet on a dating app is a complete stranger, and eventually they're going to hear your deepest feelings and emotions.

She goes, Well, I'm not comfortable with that. I don't do that. And she said, That sounds that sounds really horrible to me. She was very clear about that. And and then I said, okay, the events don't sound good. And that's kind of part of my thing now. So like, my clients get to have an event catered around then, you know, so for them.

And so I said, fine, we could take that off the table. But I asked her, like, Are you open to any type of coaching? And she was like, No, I really I have I have it because I have a therapist that I see every month or two, but I was like, but she was but she was like literally, like I kid you not exactly that client that like she's mid-forties, female, successful attorney froze her eggs.

She's like, I just want to meet men who are serious about having a family and they're ready and they don't have any other. Like she gave me all of her dealbreakers, all of her requirements, and that's all I need. And I, I told her that, you know, I don't know that we're good way to work together. Yeah.

Justin

Oh, yeah. I have to ask Jenny. Do you? So I didn't know that this was a type until I met Sophie and started learning about her work. I was like, Oh, this is a type like, so do you see this, this type? Like.

Jenny

Oh, yeah. And these are the these are the folks that are really ambivalent about therapy and want to come to therapy once a month. And we have to explain that that's not therapy. That that's yeah, that's, that's a support animal. I mean that's not very often and yeah, and so we have a lot of conversations with folks about the ambivalence and usually these are folks that are super up in their heads a lot of I mean, not to stereotype attorneys, but oftentimes they are attorneys.

Jenny

Attorneys, not doctors.

Sophy

Yes, surgeons.

Jenny

Yeah. Yeah. And there's a lot of oh, gosh, it's it's that battle between the the the concrete external and this this internal unseen world, you know, which gets so devalued and especially devalued in a culture that's steeped in so much narcissistic injury where everything is in a hierarchy of like doctors and lawyers matter and, you know, people in other professions don't, you know, like you're either up or you're down, you either matter, you don't.

And and that checklist to me is is really speaks of that kind of way of orienting in the world of like you click all the boxes but it's like yeah but where's the humanity you know because the humanity is where we're not in a hierarchy, we're just meeting in this middle place of we all, you know, we all poop like we all have our stuff.

We all have our, our, our, our hurts and our highs in our lows. So yeah, I see this a lot. And a lot of times, if it's if they're very, very intensely kind of defended in this way, they don't, they don't come to therapy. They will they will bounce very quickly and, and but then everyone starts, you know, you'll meet someone, there's enough curiosity in enough there's enough hurting, honestly, that they want the hurting to end.

And they know that there's no way of getting around this, that they're just that this internal thing is not going anywhere. And what's really cool is at the end of, you know, a therapy treatment, what I love is when clients say, you know, I thought all these concrete things needed to be in place for me to feel better and be happy.

Jenny

I thought I needed to meet the man and get the job and yeah, and I'm noticing, like, my outside world, I still have the same job and, you know, I'm still single, but I feel content inside. I feel a peace inside. And then usually that's when they the job changes or the person comes in, you know. So it's it's so great to see that relief, but it's a real switcheroo for folks They're really fixated on.

If I just get this, this and this, then I'll be happy. And it's such a disappointment when I'm like, sorry, that's not often how it works. You know.

Sophy

Jenny, I have to tell you, I tell people this all the time about myself, Like I had this experience. I mean, I, I became a matchmaker and a dating coach because of how much I dated. And it was such a pursuit because I felt that no matter, it's like all I needed was to get to that snapshot of a husband and kids and a certain type of life that I imagined was going to be my happy life.

Sophy

Little did I know that it did not matter. I mean, I like I come from quite a bit of, I would say capital T trauma. And I was just like, Oh, that's cool. Like, I'm cool. Like I don't cry about that anymore or anything. So we're good and I just going to find my husband and have my babies and have this and I'll be cool.

But guess what? I did that and I wasn't okay. Still, suddenly I had those things and, and it did not solve the, the, the discontent. Right. And and then, you know, and then of course, you know, I had a child who was diagnosed with an inoperable brain tumor. And then it's like the next atomic bomb. It's like, oh, I think I really need to deal with what's actually happening inside.

Sophy

There's no more running away right. You know what's interesting also, I was just thinking about it when you were talking about this is that I know you see a lot of these women come in and men who are. But I would say I stereotype women because they really they have their biological clocks. And now medicine allows for them to freeze the eggs and everything.

I asked this woman this week, I said to her, Can you just tell me like if you could look at these two ideas of like having a family, like becoming a mother versus finding your person, your partner for life to build a life with and grow old with, Like what is what would you say is more like what's more important to you right now?

And she like, couldn't answer it. She just could not answer that question. I said, because, you know, in reality and she knows like she's like, I can control. I can just go have a child on my own, but I don't want to do that. So really, I think almost she was like answering it for ourselves. Like, I don't know that she was so focused on finding a partner to build and build a life and grow with.

She just wanted to become a mother, but she didn't want to do it alone. And so she needs someone right to do that with her, which is not the way to enter into a search for a life partner. And so that.

Jenny

Was the life partner. Yeah. When you as a life partner, I sort of feel like an object, you know, it's not sort of filler.

Sophy

It's a product. It's a yeah, it's like a service, right? So she's approaching her search as like, I am looking for somebody to provide this service to me in my life goal of becoming a mom. I just don't want to do it alone. And so where does that leave me? As her matchmaker and her future potential partner, which is what was just an indicator that like because she wasn't willing to just even be open to like a little bit of work around this.

It just I didn't think that I could be successful for her, so I was just honest about it.

Justin

Yeah, I'm imagining that people that most people are surprised when they come to you and they're like, I'm just looking. Yeah, exactly. For this product, you're going to help me with this service or this product. And then what they hear back from you is like, Oh, wait, there's this whole deeper world inside of you that you have not yet explored, and that if you really want to get where you're after, you're going to have to go inside.

You have to do this work. Yeah. So yeah, so that's more of a comment and a question, but I'm imagining there's a lot of surprise and probably more often what you received this week of like, whoa, pump the brakes. I don't want to do that.

Sophy

Yeah, she specifically this woman was she was not only I think surprised by everything that I told her and asked her, but she in the end of the call, I asked her, how are you feeling right now? And she was like, I I'm feeling really bummed out. Like she was sad at the end of the call because I couldn't tell her what she wanted to hear.

I couldn't say, okay, you're going to pay me $30,000 and I'm going to I'm going to provide you with these these like these profiles, these people, these humans. She was she was bombed. I told her we should just reconnect in a couple of weeks. Let her think about, you know, stuff. But yeah, she was she was surprised and she was a little depressed.

Jenny

It comes as a great disappointment. I'm so sorry. I think it comes as a great disappointment for folks who, through no fault of their own, been really indoctrinated into this illusion, you know, of like do this and this and this and it equals this. Yeah. You know, if I, if I get the good, you know, I look a certain way, I get the grades, I have the career and then I will be successful and, and it's, it's such a bummer when it doesn't work that way and when they're being invited or initiated in some way in their life, you know, to sort of connecting to this part of themselves that they were never taught to

Jenny

even connect with. I mean, I have so much compassion because they come by it honestly. It's not like, oh, yeah, you know, they're trying to be closed off. It's just like it's scary, it's unknown. It's been devalued and seen as weak or dangerous, you know? And yeah, it is such a bummer. I mean, I have to disappoint people all the time as a therapist when they come in and they.

How many weeks is this going to take? Yeah, you know, I can't I can't tell you. You know, I'm hoping in four weeks we can you know, we can, we can, we can rock this trauma. Well, you know, maybe. Maybe not, you know? Yeah.

Justin

Like, where is the 30 days to a new you program? Can can we?

Jenny

Yeah. Yeah.

Justin

Well, it helps, you know, internal family systems, which we've talked about and we are going to talk about in the future on the podcast, but that really helps me have a lot of compassion for, for this type of person because what comes up is like, Oh, they've got one super powerful manager, at least one, but like really that has that has kicked ass in so many ways and has shown up for them and has really done an amazing job.

But it's like this is not a job for that particular part. And and all of many of the other parts have been, you know, exiled or pushed away and then of course, that deeper true self is just, you know, behind all of this. And so, yeah, that's just a lot of compassion because it's like, oh, but I mean, this everything else we've done has been so good.

Justin

But yeah, there's a whole different, it's a whole different ball game.

Sophy

It, it really is.

Justin

Okay, So Sophie, you, I am curious because you have been in this matchmaking game for some time now. This is not not your first rodeo. So how, how, how has it changed for you? I mean, so much has changed in this last year. You know, as we've worked together. But I mean, when you take a look when you first got into the matchmaking game, what, over a decade ago.

Sophy

Yeah, I yeah, yeah, yeah.

Justin

And you look at what you're doing today, how do you can you give us a like a big picture of how that has all changed?

Sophy

Yeah, sure. So I started date coaching just on the side as a side gig because people started sending me their friends and everyone like, Oh, Sophie has dated a lot. She dated a ton. She's the dating story girl. And I would just started like charging people on the side to help them with their profiles and just navigate through dating, especially after I met my husband.

So although she figured it out, she did it so I did that. And so eventually, though, many years later, I went to work for a larger agency, which is a matchmaking agency, and I was there for a few years and I started there by doing they only did blind dates, so I people without them ever seeing one another's photos, profiles, anything.

I would just I would just interview screen the matches I get to know my clients, screen the matches and then just let the client now okay, here's your next match. You know, he's this old. He lives here. He does this has, you know, has two kids, let's say, whatever it is. Right. And I would give them like I always let them pick, I'd say, what are your, like, two curiosities you would want to know about a person before you meet them?

And then they would tell me what I want to know, if whatever. Or I could say, like, you can ask me any question and I'll ask them that right? And so I would just give them this tiny little nugget before they would meet the person and they'd go on the date. Okay. So there were some drawbacks when it comes to like people who are extremely looks driven, even no matter how transparent I was, I would always describe to the person, okay, this person's this tall, this type of body type, shaved head, you know, athletic body type, whatever it is.

Right. But but for the most part, I would say there was it was it was an amazing process to match people blind because they did not have a profile to reject. Right. They didn't they couldn't look at photos and decide that one's scoop. I don't like that one. So no, there was not much for them to go off and they could go in with like a very clean slate.

Not as many expectations. They hadn't overthought all this information that they'd been given. Right. So that was great. Then when I broke off and started my own agency, I actually switched gears and decided, okay, I'm going to show photos because now I'm I'm charging so much more, you know, because I'm a boutique matchmaker and there's me, you know, I just with this tiny little handful of clients, it's very white glove.

So I switched to doing photos and profiles and it's been great. And even though, like I am the humanizing aspect of sharing profiles, right? So when I show a profile, I've already I've already met the other person. I've essentially I say, I've gone on the first date for you, like I've gauged their energy, I've talked to them, whatever, and I show them the profile.

I show the profile to my client. Then they're deciding, right? But still, in the last couple of years I have noticed and I've been kind of debating and now I'm just now it's really shifting. I just see that because everyone is so conditioned from online dating to looking at photos, looking at data points, and finding the thing they don't like and saying, okay, no.

And then I or so a lot of people push back on matches because of just one thing they saw, right? They'll say, No, no, it's just not. And I know I know what's going on with them or they'll say yes, and then they'll Google the person on their own and find more photos and more information and that and then they'll like email me.

I don't know. You know, I maybe I, I said yes, but like now I saw this person's Instagram and that data and they're just looking for a reason to say no. Right. As opposed to a reason to say yes. And this is all from it's like they're shopping, right? They're shopping for their partner. And so I because people can't help themselves, I just I'm shifting gears.

I still show photos to my executive matchmaking clients and I still show profiles. But this is kind of what led me back into doing what I'm doing now, which is somewhat blind dating, which are my life events. Because when I curate an event for a client or for a couple of clients, I interview every person that's coming to the event.

They don't see any profiles, so no one sees anyone's profiles. They all show up ten men, ten women, whatever it is. And they've trusted in me that I put in the guardrails. I took care of their checklist. Everyone is within the parameters that they have expressed they are looking for, and then they all get to meet. And it's been like the first event.

It was like magical. What happened? I have a couple that is like dating right now who have just told me we never ever would have swiped on each other, even agreed to a date had I presented the match like they are full on dating and having these amazing honest conversations with each other because they got to learn authentic relating at the event.

That's how they met. They didn't know what one another did. They didn't know how old they were. Nothing. It was all just this general parameters. So it's definitely changed. I think I'm almost circling back to like my my initial days of like this blind aspect. So basically what I'm doing is I'm removing the shopping part, right? So you're not shopping with your checklist anymore?

I took care of the checklist. You're not looking at pictures. You're not looking at profiles. And then I'm also, with the help of real World. CASTANO We are facilitating the interaction itself. So suddenly the big date isn't the big date anymore. And we're really getting people to connect on a much deeper level right off the bat. So that's how it's changed for me.

Justin

It's yes, I think what you're moving into with these authentic relating events for dating is, I guess, really, really.

Jenny

I know I want to send I think I want to send all my single friends to one of these events. Do they bring. Do you have to be one of the the the 30 K executive people? No.

Sophy

No kissing, sliding scale. No, no, no, no, no. It's actually first of all, it's completely free. To be in my dating singles directory. We match our paying clients mostly with nonpaying members. Otherwise we would have a very small pool to, to, to, to match in. So the whole I like my business model and all boutique agencies and all I would say most matchmakers, we have a very small boutique agency. We have a small roster of paying clients and then we have database scenes with thousands of interesting, vetted, intentional daters.

And so that way we can cast a really wide net and so, yes, the event that I went to that I just just put on a couple of weeks ago, it was 11, 11, 11 men, 11 women. I only had four of my paying clients there. Everyone else was a free member. And right now we're not charging to come to the events.

I mean, eventually it might change, but right now we it is invite only. So you have to be vetted and screened by me and. Okay. Yes, you're a good fit for because everyone there is like a potential match for one another based on my my opinion, my professional opinion. So so yeah, it's completely free and totally open and I'll happily send you the land.

You know, there's a sign up form online, there's landing page. They just go on there and.

Jenny

I'll send some therapists your way because the thing that's missing is they want someone who can authentically relate, who can totally, you know, is connected to some their insides on some level. And it's been so frustrating for them sort of, you know, so this is great. It's like, oh, yeah.

Sophy

It is. It is. And it's really hard, I think, for the clients of mine that have done so much work, it's really hard. It's dating is harder on some level, so it's easier on them because they aren't so stuck in their heads. They're not freaking out as much, right? They're just like bringing themselves, right? But then it's like, then you have to find someone who can at least begin to meet you there.

Yeah. Or at least open to or is starting to or gets it. Once you meet someone who's just shut off is not going to cut it anymore. So.

Justin

All right. So now we need to know all of the details. How can people find you? Just learn all about the work that you're doing. Give us all the details.

Sophy

Just go to my website and it's I mean, all of the all of the information's there. All my get started form is there. You can sign up for event. You can put your interest form for events there It's Sophie soap Why not i.e. as WW got as so why dot love Sophie dot love. My company's called Sophie love and that everything it's there.

Justin

Yeah Can they find you on Instagram? Yes Yeah.

Sophy

Matchmaker Sophie. I am not doing Tik tok or I mean, I have a tik tok and it's it's not that active, but Instagram is matchmaker. Sophie also with a y, a one word. But yeah, my website is the easiest place to start and everyone who goes in, they create a profile. I have two additional matchmakers. If somebody is interested just in being in our database, they usually get screened as well by one of my matchmakers.

If they're interested in learning about paid services, I have another person that does their intake, gets to know them what they're looking for, shares information kind of about my services, my pricing, all of that. And then if it seems like it's like, okay, then they'll then they'll meet me and we'll do a kind of a deeper discovery call.

So yeah, the website's really the best place you can. They can sign up, they can on any form, indicate that they're interested in events, etc., all that.

Justin

So beautiful. All right. So we got the last three questions that we ask every guests. All right. So here we go. First one is if you could put a big Post-it note on every person's refrigerator tomorrow morning with that Post-it note saying.

Sophy

Okay, I'm going to use this. I'm going to say the thing that I saw on the mug at a coffee shop in L.A. last week. I got my. Yes. Yeah. Just as like, do I need this mug? It never gets easier. You just get better.

Justin

Mm. Yeah, it never gets easier now. Yeah. All right. So. Well, so now you're going to you can choose this one for the second question, but if you want to throw something different in there, that's okay. So the last quote that you saw that changed the way you think or feel about.

Sophy

I just saw I mean, I love Carl Jung quotes always. I just saw one and I actually posted it yesterday. So I, I think I'm going to do this one. Every thing that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves. I just this was it's it's it initially you read it and you're like, oh, but then you're like, God, once I once I actually accepted this and understood it.

It's so liberal it's like so liberating to know that how I react to anyone I've ever interacted with, anyone. It doesn't matter who they are. It only has to do with me and not with them. And so now I own that like it's mine to understand, to change, control, whatever it is, right? I don't have to depend on anyone else to determine like how I experience interaction and life in general.

So it's a very like, liberating thing to just come to terms with.

Justin

Oh yeah, I in, in internal family systems they, they would call those trailheads like, oh, like this person is activating me. Oh there's something here for me to explore now. Yeah, this is the beginning. The Okay, okay. So the, the third question is what is one thing giving you hope right now?

Sophy

Okay, so I'll just I'll just make it about me. My own healing. Definitely. How it's to see how over the last it's been about ten months now, how it's really rippled across every single aspect of my life. But the most significant thing that I think is truly giving me hope is seeing how my healing has changed. Not only how my how connected I am with my children and the connection with them, but actually seeing firsthand how my healing shows up in them.

It's it's like a beacon of hope to see how it can like I see my daughter, I see them being different. And I recognize that it's what I've done internally that's coming through to them. And it's just like it to see that and to understand that, wow, we can actually break these cycles of passing down the trauma, the, you know, the emotional illness, the mental illness, which then leads to so many physical ailments.

Sophy

And just seeing that that's possible with seeing it happen. And my nine and a half year olds is it's a lot of hope.

Justin

So beautiful. Beautiful. Oh, my gosh. Sophie has been wonderful. Oh, Jenny, is there any any final thoughts?

Jenny

No, I'm just grateful to meet you and thank you for this conversation. It's been wonderful.

Sophy

This has been great. Thank you. I'm glad I finally got to meet, too. Jenny, I've been listening to your voice for a while. Oh.

Justin

Yeah, sure. So you're doing amazing work. I mean, bringing this into the dating world is really revolutionary. Like, it's really changing the game, and I'm just so glad that we can have you on to talk about it.

Sophy

Thank you. Thank you for having me. You guys.

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